Painful Grip

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Roland_Staghare
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Painful Grip

Post by Roland_Staghare » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:00 am

So, I've found Painful Grip to be a bit oppressive. The 'it landed once, and now I have no recourse but to sit there and take 150 damage a pop until it fails' sort of oppressive. Mostly this issue crops up with combining it with spiked treads against most characters who don't have an option such as blink. I think it might be for the best that either it has a 1 turn cooldown added, or make its damage no longer ignore defense to prevent it being an option to effectively just shut down a 1v1 unless there's a cleanse pot or blink handy. Right now though, its combination of damage and immobilize feels incredibly out of tune.

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Spoops
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Spoops » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:16 am

I think the best option is simply toning down its damage in some capacity, its too reliable as a damage source, low FP Cost on grapple combined with the un-protectable damage that ignores evasion, the only counter it has really is pierce resistance which is kinda something thats hard to build for, it demolishes tanks super easily as well which probably shouldn't be a thing, its a more reliable damage source than anything else in the game cause it doesn't have to deal with DR.

You'd either have to tone down its damage itself (by tuning down the STR Scaling to 1 or 1.5x), or have it go against DEF like everything else has to usually, I believe the latter is the safer option for the future, and allows it to maintain its current scaling which is super generous.

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Neus
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Neus » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:22 am

Yeah, I'm not sure what to do about it. A 1 round CD would prevent double tapping it, but it doesn't solve the underlying issue.

Potentially having Grapple have a lower success rate if you have certain status effects, or if your HP is below certain breakpoints. Hitting the damage feels sorta meh because the trait is supposed to feel threatening and powerful - it is a Shaitan trait, after all.

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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Spoops » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:48 am

I can see why you'd want it to be terrifying, one of my main characters is a shaitan so its plenty understandable, I could see Muddy and Devil waxed characters not being easy to grab, among any other status effects you're thinking of.

I could also see the struggle skill applied to grapple, and having that possibly having grapple's success rate be altered by it, or being altered by the opposing person's STR, that way its not foolproof against everyone.

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Fern
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Fern » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:35 pm

I think Grapple's success rate could be reduced by half of the victim's STR. I am referring to total STR and not Scaled, yeah.

Either that or giving it the Struggle > Status immunity after success treatment.
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Noxid
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Noxid » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:51 pm

Nerfing grapple in general might be a bit much when its just one trait that is causing the issues. Perhaps adding a downside to it could help? Sharp claws has you inflict self damage when used this could receive something similar. Maybe a decrease to physical res considering the shaitan is busy grabbing rather than guarding.

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Re: Painful Grip

Post by PantherPrincess » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:13 pm

Fern wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:35 pm
I think Grapple's success rate could be reduced by half of the victim's STR. I am referring to total STR and not Scaled, yeah.

Either that or giving it the Struggle > Status immunity after success treatment.
I like this idea a lot. It would help those that don't really have any way to break out of the grapple/applying irl logic to in-game mechanics, although idk about total STR I'd go with scaled just to be on the safe side. I also agree that a 1 round CD would suffice along with it because currently its spam rate is off the charts. One or the other works or maybe even both. Another downside to grapple skills could be BW. If the enemies BW outclasses your STR your chance should be lowered.
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Neus
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Neus » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:25 am

Grapple gets a 1 round CD.

While grappled, you can struggle (once per round) - you roll a number from half your STR to your total STR. If the roll exceeds your opponent's total STR, you break the grapple. If you don't, the success rate of the next grapple attempt is reduced by your roll.

How does that sound?

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Roland_Staghare
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Roland_Staghare » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:57 am

Seems fair, and addresses the key issues without being in the way. Normal grapple is usually only used to secure a kill in a team fight in my experience anyways, so the CD won't be too adverse to its normal use.

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Fern
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Re: Painful Grip

Post by Fern » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:11 am

Sounds very good to meeee!
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