Change to rush down strategies

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Spoops
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Change to rush down strategies

Post by Spoops » Tue May 28, 2019 7:25 am

Rush down strategies when involving a lot of DPS and team wide crowd control (IE Knockdowns) can get very oppressive very quickly when people with stupid high initiative are taken into play, and can easily decide a 4v4 in a matter of round 0 due to AoE and massive momentum control.

It involves mostly strategies that make use of team wide crowd control as I mentioned, which includes some major problem cases like:
-Quaking Heaven Kick
-Sonic Shell Overcharge
-Vydel from Tarnada (This is a luck based chance thankfully)
-Lead Storm
-Especially Lead Storm with Ryesers while utilizing and overcharged sonic shell.

So here's what I think should happen, round 0 shouldn't be so influential as to how the match plays out, it shouldn't be a clean sweep based on who has the fastest magic gunner on your team, so I'd like for the following proposals to be considered:
Changes to momentum loss and rush down:

-Momentum can no longer go below 3 when reduced. (This prevents the use of various strategies that sort of lead to mini stuns, like Book Smack > Knockdown, or Ryeser + Knockdown)

-Battle positions at the start of a team match are altered dramatically (See: Picture below.)

-Knockdown cannot be inflicted Round 0
Image

(Context, yellow denotes what 1v1s would appear like (unchanged) and Blue denotes what team fights would be using.)
Last edited by Spoops on Tue May 28, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Fern
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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Fern » Tue May 28, 2019 7:58 am

I find this to be a very healthy and efficient change in the long run. With positioning and conditions like these, it'd likely be harder to find stuff that breaks fights Round 0 in the future updates.

I'd say more, but I'd be repeating the points brought up in the post.
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Noxid
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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Noxid » Tue May 28, 2019 8:04 am

A very simple method I've seen other similar games use to solve this problem in PvP is to just increase HP during PvP fights. I'd be interested to see what people think of this idea.

I do like the idea of changing battles positioning at the start. The most ideal solution imo would be the ability to actually choose where you start, a short placement phase before the match starts.

I don't really have much strong feelings on the other suggestions, other than I feel like gimmicky builds should be able to keep their gimmicks.

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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Sawrock » Tue May 28, 2019 11:50 am

While I like the new battle positions, I also think it would be neat to choose which of the two (current and this layout) your side of the battlefield/team would prefer.
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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by DoctorMad » Tue May 28, 2019 6:41 pm

Sawrock wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:50 am
While I like the new battle positions, I also think it would be neat to choose which of the two (current and this layout) your side of the battlefield/team would prefer.
With a addendum that serious PvP battles should begin with the layout stated in this thread.

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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Spoops » Tue May 28, 2019 10:20 pm

The only reason I prefer the fixed positions even in spars is because if you can choose where you spawn you'd have people choosing the far corner in order to start spamming map wide invos like Enma's summons or divine shower, with no way to actually tell where people spawn that can quickly get problematic.

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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Sawrock » Tue May 28, 2019 11:19 pm

Not the exact position. A party pre-defined setup.
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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Spoops » Tue May 28, 2019 11:42 pm

Sawrock wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:19 pm
Not the exact position. A party pre-defined setup.
Oh thats what the numbers are for, you'd be able to pre-designate a position for each party member, 1 would be paired with 3 and 2 would be paired with 4, that way you can still have supports be able to help eachother out round 0.

If you mean like, different party setups for different strategies I'd welcome that too, I just thought the above picture showcased one such fair method of divvying out people per side.

I am very open to discussion in this thread I'd like to hear if anyone has differing ideas on where they would prefer to start, its just this picture I posted received the most positive feedback from a few groups.

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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by WaifuApple » Wed May 29, 2019 10:59 am

This idea seems like a fine change for me. Doesn't heavily disadvantage a whole team from the start of the battle and keep people from being locked out of what they can do in the case of these soft stun techniques.
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Re: Change to rush down strategies

Post by Sawrock » Wed May 29, 2019 12:10 pm

Oh, sorry, I mean like the party leader chooses one layout from a set of four or five or so, one of the ones being the one posted in the original post, and one being the current one. Of course if this isn't possible, I think the layout in the original post is the best as a default.
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